Williams allowed to step down. Court is adjourned but not before judge reminds jury not to watch TV, read newspapers, discuss the trial. We'll be back again tomorrow for day 4.
Thomas cp now asking Williams if she's "clairvoyant." Judge admonishing him for being argumentative.
Bullotta now reading from Grand Jury testimony a comment by Williams. The gist of Williams comment was that Williams thought Carlita was fishing for more money.
Bullotta asked if Carlita earned the money by going to those meetings. Williams say, "no."
Williams testifies that Principal of school wouldn't let CArlita train kids during school hours but Carlita never tried to train kids during the after school program Van Guard was running.
I should explain here that Van Guard was running it's community center out of a school, so when I referred to community center earlier it was actually located in the school and not a separate building.
Bullotta up now. Trying to follow up with question about who's fault Williams thinks it is. Thomas tossed in an objection but Judge tells him Bullotta is following up on a question you asked so you're over-ruled.
Williams testifies that it wasn't all Carlita's fault that she didn't get the work done. up
Thomas is drilling on the point that Carlita offered to work for the free. He's got a hold of the point and he's letting go. Bullotta is objecting that Williams answered the question several times. The Judge is wading in now and saying the Jury can look at the Grand Jury testimony and decide if Williams ever said Carlita offered to work for free after the fact. Williams was quite adamant that she felt CArlita only made the offer because Van Guard got more money.
Thomas asks Williams about seeing Carlita after Carlita stopped working to go back to school and if she remembers CArlita saying she'd work for free. Williams says she doesn't recall aWilliamnd now Thomas is referring her to Grand Jury testimony where he alleges Williams told the jury CArlita offered to work for free.
Williams says Carlita didn't offer to come back to work until after Van Guard got the second half of the grant.
Thomas is asking if Carlita showing up 2 or three times a week was a significant contribution to the program and Williams agreed.
Thomas uses the agenda as an example that Carlita had a "Plan" and that the document is evidence of a plan. Williams responds that it looked like Carlita may have had an outline for a plan,
Thomas now introducing another exhibit. It's a parent teacher association document showing and agenda. He's been asking Williams about the timing of meetings she had with Carlita. At one point he asked Williams about a meeting that occurred after "you interviewed her." Williams responded that she didn't interview Carlita for the job, it was a done deal when she found about Carlita's hiring. I'm paraphrasing here and those are my words. Williams took a little longer to explain.
Williams testifies that she thought CArlita was knowledgeable and intelligent and had no reason to think Carlita would not do good work, at that time.
Thomas is now asking Williams about her Grand Jury testimony. Thomas is asking Williams if she remembers telling the Grand Jury that Carlita was coming around a few times a week for about 6 months. Williams say it was so long ago she can't remember if was for 6 months.
Thomas now showing Williams another exhibit.
Kilpatrick is sitting back in his chair but very straight. Occasionally confirming with the attorney next to him.
Assistant Prosecutor Mike Bullotta on the other hand has been leaning back inn his chair, very attentive, but pretty relaxed during this cross examination.
THomas now asking about payment to Carlita to set up program. That's Thomas saying Carlita was paid to set up program but Williams never gives a clear answer.
Thomas says Williams never asked Carlita to document her work and Williams responds, "Yes, I did."
Thomas now asking about community center building that Van Guard was using. Thomas keeps returning to how the contract language is so broadly written. He's using the community center as an example of how Van Guard could, if it so chose, use the money to expand as yet un-named programs at the center.
Williams testifies that she hadn't written for grants that were as general and broad as the Arts grant from the state.
Williams agrees that conflict resolution would fit grant but she wasn't aware it was going to be included in grant until later. She also agreed that conflict resolution was good for the community program.
Kilpatrick defense attorney now cross examining, asking about trip to New York Churches with Bishop Van and Kilpatrick to see programs they were doing.
Williams testifies she applied for grants on VAn Guard's behalf before she started working there full time.
Williams testifies that she didn't ask Carlita for money back because the agreement was that VAn Guard would pay her that amount of money (even though Carlita didn't provide services.)
Van Guard got letter from State disallowing expenditure for Carlita's company. But VAn guard did get second half of grant.
Williams testifies that in letter to State of Michigan Carlita's invoice was attached and they listed Carlita as a coach.
Shortly after invoice was sent she got an angry phone call from Mr. Kilpatrick that she, "screwed up."
She says Kilpatrick told her Carlita was supposed to be paid out of different money.
Bullotta now asking about documentation about how grant was spent requested by the State.
Williams testifies she was upset about the way CArlita was hired but liked her once they started working together.
Williams says Carlita didn't do $10,000 in student development, provide materials, or character education program for kids.
Williams testifies that staff may have learned some things from Carlita but it didn't rise to level of a $10,000 training program
Williams testifies that Carlita said she'd enrolled in school and would not be able to continue coming to meetings. Williams says this was not a "usual" contract.
prosecution now showing invoice from Carlita's company any. Invoice shows $23,000 ).
Bullotta asks what MRs. Kilpatrick did. Williams says she had a few meetings with staff at VAn Guard, met between 5 and 10 times over a couple of months.
Williams says Carlita may have brought some information materials to the meetings.
Prosecution shows check payable to Carlita's company Unite, for $37,500. Williams say they paid Carlita half up front and would pay second have after the rest of the grant was disbursed.
Williams says Artists and other services were on payroll or got money as they provided service.
Williams says it was unusual to pay half up front for someone providing the type of services Carlita's company was providing.
Williams says they asked CArlita for invoice of services.
Williams testifies that it was Bishop Van's decision to hire Carlita and that her company, Unite, would provide conflict resolution services. Williams says she was introduced to Carlita for what she thought was a discussion on what kind of services Carlita would provide.
Williams confirms they got money from state.
Prosecution showing exhibit, the grant paperwork Williams filled out. Williams says they were trying to get low income people involved in art to help boost their confidence and hope. Applied for $300,000. Was introducer to CArlita in Sept. 2000. Bishop Van told Williams they wanted to hire CArlits for $75,000.
Mike Bullotta is asking her about how Van Guard was funded. Williams say she looked for private donators in the community and she learned about state grants from Bishop Edgar Van.
Williams testifies she filled out the paperwork.
Williams says Van Guard was formed to improve the neighborhood and help people. This would be north side of Detroit Woodward to Caniff.
Donna Williams worked for Big Brothers and Sister in the late 90's and worked for Van Guard in 1999. Williams is now Executive Director of the Brightmoor Community Center.
Lannoye asked it it's important that work actually gets done. She replies yes.
Thomas now up and saying Mrs. Kilpatrick was merely a contractor and not the grantee.
Lannoye stepping down. Next witness is Donna Williams.
Prosecution asking if open ended disclosure is important and if Lannoye would have changed her decision to award the grant had she know about Mrs. Kilpatrick's involvement. Lannoye says she probably would not have awarded the grant.
Ferguson attorney Susan Van Dusen is now cross examining former State Budget Director Mary Lannnoye about over site of the grants.
In case you were wondering why I'm writing in italics it's because I have fat thumbs and I'm working on a small computer. I keep hitting extraneous keys. Thank goodness this machine has spell check.
Judge is back and Thomas is cross examining. He's talking about re labeling exhibits so Jury will know what they're looking at. Sorting process may take a minute.
Still standing and wafting for the Judge. Bullotta and Thomas are conferring over paperwork.
"All rise." The Judge is about to enter and the gallery is standing>
Still on break but defense attorneys are filtering in. Kilpatrick is seated and chatting with attorneys. He's sitting back in his chair. hands folded under his chin in contemplation
Still on break. The court room is practically empty.
The grant to Van Guard was $300,000. 3-D was supposed to get $500,000. Carlita's company was supposed to provide conflict resolution services to 3-d.
Thomas is now asking if there was a point where staffers said 3-d and Van Guard should not be funded for any reason but that reason had noting to do with Mrs. Kilpatrick. He's showing her a letter talking about stopping funding and Mrs. Kilpatrick's name is not mentioned.
taking a 20 minutes break. Lennoye will be back after the break.
Thomas asks about Curtis Hertell' being a lawmaker while his brother was taking a salary for running the state fair. Lennoye agrees it was not illegal or inappropriate.
Thomas also asks if Governor Engler's wife used funding from state but Lennoye doesn't think she took a salary.
Lennoye agrees that contractor can be compensated for supplies and work. Thomas asks if she heard that Carlita Kilpatrick was involved and Lennoye says yes.
Prosecution objects and Judge sustains. Thomas says he'll change his form of questioning.
Thomas is now questioning Lennoye about documenting to work being done and how the people who got the money were held accountable.
Thomas now introducing another defense exhibit.
Thomas is now showing Lennoye a boiler plate grant agreement. Thomas wants to know if Lennoye agrees that the language is broad and the grantee can spend the money how they want.
Thomas say he's going to go through the document paragraph by paragraph. Judge reminds him he has to enter the exhibit.
Lennoye recalls that there was $11 million dollars in the grant budget at that time.
Thomas is now asking about what happens after the grants are awarded, Lennoye say the State then enters into contracts with the organizations.
Thomas wants to know if the Detroit 3-D's and Van Guard got contracts.
Thomas is now introducing a "courtesy" letter from Kilpatrick thanking her for her consideration. Thomas wants to know if it's a thank you letter.
Lennoye says she's not sure if the grant had been awarded yet or not. Might have been.
Thomas is now asking about the actual discussion about the budget and asks Lennoye if she had a lot of power. THomas wants to know if she had power to say she would support some requests and refuse others. Thomas is making the "sausage" metaphor about politics.
Lennoye say Politics is a little bigger than the budget.
Kilpatrick's defense attorney Jim Thomas is not asking Lennoye to explain the difference between the Budget and a supplemental budget.
Thomas wants to know if she's hear the phase, "herding cat's." He's talking about drumming up supporting votes for the budget and needing Democratic support.
He wants to know if Kilpatrick's power is the same as any other lawmaker. Lennoye says he was a leader so she figures he had some sway over his caucus.
Lennoye says during her conversation with Kilpatrick he was nonchalant and she was angry because the grants were not supposed to go to a lawmaker's wife.
The defense has made several objections but all were over-ruled. Thomas is now up to cross examine.
Lennoye is being quizzed about documentation for the grant. She says an aide recognized that Mrs. Kilpatrick was affiliated with the company and once they found out they met with Kilpatrick. "these grants were supposed to be for...non profits and not for a legislator's gain."
Lennoye says it give the impression of impropriety.
She's asked would she have authorized the grant, and it "...give the impression of impropriety...the money going straight to a legislator's wife."
Lennoye says Kilpatrick approached her about grants during budget process. She got a letter from Kilpatrick. This was at a time when Republicans were looking for support from Democrats for the state budget. Kilpatrick's letter mentions VAn Guard Community SErvices.
New witness, Mary Lennoye, former State Budget Director.
Degrow says it would not be appropriate for a spouse to benefited directly from a grant. on redirect he agrees it would be appropriate to grant money to refurbish a facility that provides job training.
now waiting for next witness.
The prosecution argument here appears to be that Kilpatrick got the State to pay for a new office for Ferguson and the Defense is saying it's okay to refurbish Ferguson's office because the grant language is so broad.
Bullotta is now on re-direct and is asking if refurbishing an office is helping the community. DeGrow says not really.
Bullotta also asks if any of DeGrow's family members benefited from the grant to the arena. DeGrows say they may have gone to watch a hockey game.
Ferguson's attorney Susan VanDusen is now asking about the criteria for selection and giving DeGrow an exhibit. DeGrow says it looks like the type of document he would have seen. VanDusen is asking about the broadness of the language in the document because that allows flexibility to award money to projects that provide diverse services. VanDusen wants to know if it goes beyond arts and includes community economic development.
Thomas is now asking about if DeGrow knew that Kilpatrick's wife was providing services to the folks who got the Detroit grants. DeGrow says it's unusual for a family member to work for a grantee. DeGrow says it's unusual but not unheard of.
Thomas is now delving into the process of requesting and awarding grants, specifically about guarantees. Sen. DeGrow says there are applications that must be filled out, that there are guidelines but that he did not administer the grants.
Thomas wants to know if that was an unusual process. DeGrow says that's normal business.
Jim Thomas is now quizzing DeGrow about funding for an arena that was in his district. Thomas is also asking him about lots of other grants around the state. Kilpatrick is taking notes.
Degrow is trying explain that there were so many grant and funding requests that they all seem to blend together.
DeGrow is explaining that there are lots of people involved in the budget agreement process. He says, "sure there's horse trading" but there's also the desire to share fairly and spread money around. He says it's not unusual for the Minority Leader, (Kilpatrick in 2000) to ask for specific grants.
Bullotta asks if DeGrow would have approved the grant had he know the money was going to be used to fix up Bobbie Ferguson's office. Jim Thomas is now up.
Bullotta is asking about the Detroit 3 Dimensional Community Development Corp. grant. Kilpatrick asked for funding and DeGrow as Senate leader agreed. DeGrow is guessing the grant was for hundreds of thousands of dollars but can't remember an exact figure.
Assistant Federal Prosecutor Mike Bullotta is asking Sen. DeGrow about his relationship with Kilpatrick. DeGrow says they had a good relationship and added that they didn't fight as much back then as they do now. THey're talking about the supplemental budget and an Arts, and Cultural Grant.
PRosecutors have called Dan Degrow former State Senator. He was Senate Majority leader, now Superintendent of Schools in St. Clair County. Mike Bullotta is asking him about the budget when he was in office.
All the defense attorneys are back in the room. The Judge has taken the bench.
Kwame Kilpatrick is now in the court room and just sat down at the defense table. His attorney Jim Thomas is still in the Judge's chambers. Kilpatrick is looking around the room and gently drumming his fists on the table.
Defense Attorney Gerald Evelyn just had a brief work with the prosecutors and now most of the Deafens team and the Prosecuting Attorneys have disappeared through a door behind the Judge's bench. Looks like a conference with the Judge.
Good Morning from the Theodore Levin U.S. Courthouse. Defense Attorneys for the Kilpatrick trial are nearly all seated at the defense table. Mr. Ilpatrick is not yet in the court room. And the gallery is about half full this morning.
Ken Martinek is a Senior Producer-Investigations for WJBK-TV Fox 2 News Detroit. He will be writing live updates from the courthouse through the duration of the Kilpatrick corruption trial.
WJBK-TV | Fox 2
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