Live Blog: Kwame Kilpatrick Trial Day 35 - Fox 2 News Headlines

Live Blog: Kwame Kilpatrick Trial Day 35

Detroit (MyFoxDetroit) -

And we're done for the day.  Soave will be back on the stand again in the morning for more cross examination, and the prosecution will have a chance for re-direct.  And we will have the chance to get M.L. Elrick's take on all this tonight at 5 and 6, and read about it on MyFoxDetroit in his daily takeaway.


Gurewitz asks if he's generous with people he likes.  Soave says yes.  Gurewitz asks about the blackout. The offer of the use of one of his planes.  Soave says he was called to go pick him up and he tried to.

Gurewitz asks if he remembers City airport being shut down.  Yes.  asks if he flew Kwame back to finish his vacation, for the good of the city.  Yes.

Gurewitz asks if he knew Coleman Young had a plane from the city.  did he talk to Kwame about that.  Soave says he doesn't remember specifically talking about it but it could have been something they talked about.


Gurewitz asks if kwame went to his house.  2 or 3 times, yeah we talked about politics, says he doesn't remember exactly what we talked about but we talked about things. 

Gurewitz asks if he developed a friendship with him. Soave says we were friendly.  Soave says, "I like him."

Gurewitz asks if he knew Kilpatrick has a lot of responsibilities at that time.  Yes.  Asks if he knew they were looking for a new DWSD head.  SAys he doesn't remember that.  Police Chief.  Doesn't remember.  Snow removal issues.  Says he kinda remember that.  So Do I, My boss at the time, Neil Goldstein was so incensed by the issue he got the station to hire snow powers to go in the city and plow some streets.  Great story!  Fox 2 works for you


Judge says Gurewitz us asking bout a one word answer and that there's more before or after it in the grand jury testimony.

Gurewitz asks if he thought it was implied.  Soave says he knew when he left there he had to use Bobby. 

Gurewitz asks if was implied that he use Bobby.   Judge is telling Gurewitz to read the questions.

This is a grand juror asking to clarify a question.  Gurewitz is reading from the Grand Jury testimony and asking the question if it was implied he use Bobby.  The testimony is in question and answer form and could be taken in several ways.

Soave is saying it wasn't ambiguous.  It's one of those questions and answers that you need to hear the inflection in the voices.

Soave says you keep misunderstanding me, it was clear, I knew when I left there that I had to use Bobby Ferguson, you don't want to hear it, but that's the way it went.

Gurewitz asks if her used Bobby Through 2010. Yes.


Gurewitz now showing Soave another document.  ASks him to read lines 6 though 11.  ASks again, what you said was if I recall correctly that the mayor never said if he didn't use Bobby he wouldn't get the work.  Soave starts to say that's not what he was saying at all, Bullotta objects, and the Judge says she thinks she'll have to see it.

Sidebar.  Judge says there's one ambiguous word and she doesn't think he can do it that way.

Soave says he didn't read the whole page do you want me to read the whole page.  Judge says yes please.


"all rise" court is back in session. Gurewitz is armed with his new document and ready to turn his gentle but relentless questions lose on Tony Soave.

Judge tells everyone to be seated. and giver the floor to Gurewitz.

We're looking at contract page, June 26, 2002 asks if there's not signature from Kwame on page.  Judge says he's already testified to this.  Gurewitz says it leads to his next questions.  CArefully contemplates is next questions. and Asks if Soave knows the procedure it goes through to get to this point.  Soave says no.

Gurewitz says you have difficulty remembering the details.  Soave says I don't have dementia if that's what you're getting at.  Says he gets memo, memo, memo, but he remembers that meeting with the Mayor.  Says his mission was that contract and he remembers distinctly.

Gurewitz says but you said it was on the mayors desk and that's not part of the process.  Soave says if it wasn't on his desk then why did Kwame say it was because he had the wrong contractor.

the judge jumps in as tell Soave all Gerwitz is asking is he remembers the exact words and phrases.  Soave says he doesn' remember exact words.

Gurewitz says the mayor says if he didn't use a particular contractor he wouldn't get the work.  Soave agrees he did not say that.


Soave says he doesn't remember this memo it would probably help to ask Susan Johnson why she wrote the memo.

Gurewitz asks if this would be a problem for his company.  Yes.

Gurewitz asks if this was prepared about one month before his meeting with the Mayor. Yes.

ASks if he remembers conversations with McCann or Levin.  Soave says no I do not.

Gurewitz asks Rataj for another document.  Judge calls for a 5 minute break.


Gurewitz showing a letter from one of the company attorneys, Susan Johnson, says she did more than one thing, environmental matters, contracts, if they had legal matters she would be one that would get involved.

Gurewitz asks if he sees the issues in the subject, 1361 and 1368.  Yes.  The Memo says that contract has run out of money... says and is supposedly being held up in the aMayor's office.  SAys we have hard through several sources.   Also says Again we are being told though our sources that if has to do the Charlie and these other supposedly "more deserving" minority contractors.

Gurewitz asks if he recalls having conversations about the memo.

Gurewitz asks if these negotiations are tense. Yes.

Until it's done, signed sealed and delivered everybody is tense. Yes.

Asks if this would filter up to his level.  Soave this is the kind of thing that would filter up.

Gurewitz asks if he sees the sentence that says Derrick Miller never heard of these contracts (which is a lie - Gary Fujita has spoken to him.)  memo says if it isn't cut lose soon it would have to be re bid.

Gurewitz asks what that meant to him.  Soave agrees it would be a problem for his company and the guys at the water department.


Gurewitz now introducing a new exhibit. Gurewitz couldn't be any more different than Rataj.  RAtaj peppered Soave with questions pugalistically.  Gurewitz is soft spoken, deferential, self deprecating, methodical.

the new document is a letter to the mayor on a follow up conversation Kathleen McCann requesting the meeting with the Mayor.  Fist entry talks about Soaves commitment to city and Mayoral initiatives.  Gurewitz asks if this was talking about donating un used advertising space on taxis. Soave says he doesn't remember this memo but the cab company had signs and says that's what this says.

Gurewitz moves to paragraph about pollution problem with recycling company.  Does it ask for City's endorsement with EPA. Gurewitz says the company had to pay fines.  Soave says and we did.

Last on the list is DWSD contract 1368.  Soave says he doesn't remember this.  Gurewitz says this is the one you eventually went to see the mayor about.  Yes.

Gurewitz reads this is the new contract which Inland waters was recently awarded, would he expect this to be correct even if he doesn't remember it.  Yes.

Reads."It's our understanding the mayors office may have questions about the contract which we ma be able to answer."  Soave says I don't know if this was sent or what. I don't know


Gurewitz asks if he was the guy who put the proposals together, did the detail work.  No.

G says you were asked some questions about your first meeting with him.  Did it happen sometime after he was elected.  Soave says I think the date was on his agenda.  G says he'll show it to him.

Putting calendar on screen now.  SAys meeting with Tony Soave 11-1130.

G says obviously this isn't your calendar.  No I don't know where it came from.  G says you don't know if it was that day.  Soave says he doesn't remember the exact date but he had the meeting.

G says but Kwame met with him before that.  Yes, he came to my office.

G now asking about giving to city charities.  G says you're a guy with a big heart and if someone wants something they come to you.  yes.

G asks if he supported his opponent Gil Hill. yes.

asks if they just got together to get to know each other, agrees it's good to get to know the incoming Mayor.

ASks if he had a good sense of humor and showed it in the court room.  Says yes, but the really funny guy was the previous guy.  Think he's ribbing Rataj.

G asks if when he went to office he wasn't seeing a stranger.  Says he only saw him one time.

Soave says he called and Kwame accepted an appointment with him.

G asks if he testified about this to the grand jury.  Yes.

G says the meeting was 8  years earlier.  Soave says he didn't have any notes about the meeting.  G asks if he had any other kind of record. Soave says like a written record? No.

G asks if McCann and other filled him in before the meeting.  Soave says they were the ones who filled him in about what was going on.


Gurewitz asks if he had a good relationship with DWSD.  Soave says he thinks so but you'd have to ask them.

G asks about when was it he formed Soave Enterprises.  Soave says, gee I don't know, sometime after he sold waste businesses.  Says he just doesn't remember the date.

Gurewitz says what he really wants him to do, what his job is.  Soave says, I don't know, the stuff an owner does, poke his nose into things.

G asks if that means poke your nose into all the things like the automotive along with inland waters.

G asks if he depended on his people for information.  Yes.

Asks how long Kathleen McCann worked for him.  20 years, says he's a CPA.  SAys at the time she was overseeing Inland.

G asks about Yale Levin.  Soave agrees he's also a CPA.  Tells Gurewitz it was a small leadership group and they worked closely together.  Says Souza was his field man then.

G asks if Soave is located at 3400 e Lafeyette. Soave says it's still there.

Gurewitz says so you... Soave says so you're not trying to trick me are you, with a big smile on his face.  Gurewitz laughs and says no I'm not a tricky guy.

G asks if he relied on his employees for information.  Yes


G asks what he means by keeping them happy.  Soave says that means to do your job and do what they want.  They have to be happy with your work.

G asks if it's good to have a good friend relationship is an issue comes up.  Yes.

g asks if it's a difficult area of work. competitive. Yes.


RAtaj asks if it was nine months later the contract was approved. Soave says that what it says.

Rataj asks if he knows how many amendments there were.  Soave says no.  Judge Edmunds tells Rataj if Soave doesn't know he'll have to move on.

Rataj is done... and Harold Gerwitz is now doing cross on behalf of Kwame.  Gurewitz spells his name for the jury.

Gurewitz asks  if he remembers being asks what he does and did he answers he owned some companies.  Asks if he gave the same  answer to the grand jury.  Yes.

Asks if he said he was a loveable guy, at least to his grandchildren.  Yes.

Gurewitz asks if he grew up in Detroit, dad owned a grocery store.  Yes he did

Truck, trailer and bulldozer.  Soave says he did grading work, in the '60's


Rataj now showing the Contract signature page, asks can you see the Jun 26 2002 approval date, Inland employee signatures. Yes.

Asks if nowhere on this document is the Mayor's signature.  Soave says well, Rataj stops him, and Soave says no.

Asks if he knows when Inland got it's start work Letter.  No.  approaching box to show Soave the letter.

Throughout this whole exchange Soave has been saying he's being asked questions he doesn't know anything about.  He's not getting angry or upset just sounds frustrated that he can't answer.

Rataj now showing start work letter.  July 14 2002. Shows that council has approved.

Rataj is now reading the letter into the record.  Soave says he sees that's what the letter says.

Rataj asks if it's the city council and not the Mayor that approves the contract.  Bullotta objects and Rataj says he withdraws the question the documents speak for themselves.


Rataj asks if Soave knows why the  invoice wasn't paid.  Soave says no.  Rataj asks if he didn't know that the city council.... Judge says this is improper, again.  Rataj gets flustered and says let's have a side bar and Judge Edmunds stomps on him, " do you get to call the sidebars now?"  And they do have a sidebar.  No smiling faces at this gathering.  Except for Shea who was holding back a tight small smile.

Okay they're back.  RAtaj is now showing an inter office memorandum to Jackie Jordan, April 2002,  Rataj says you can see that  this document shows this has not been approved for payment and needs City Council approval.  Rataj asks do you agree that they didn't get paid because city council didn't give approval.  Soave says it says they didn't get notice that could be  different.

Rataj asks if he knows the process.  Soave says no.

Rataj asks if he had any personal knowledge that Kilpatrick was holding up the contract.  Soave says no.  So you had no personal  knowledge?  Soave says no, his employees were telling him it was held up.

Rataj asks if Kwame had nothing to do with approving the contract.  Soave says no.

Rataj asks if he know when the contract was actually approved.  No.  Rataj now sounds like the cat that just swallowed the canary.


Rataj is back at the podium grilling Soave, they're talking about 2002 performance and payment bonds.  Soave says he doesn't know if you have to post the bonds before or after the contract is awarded.

Rataj is asking if Mid State Security was providing the bonds for 1368 and if it was soave's company.  Soave says yes he owned it.  SAys he doesn't own it now.

Rataj asks if he remembers and invoice for $290,000. Soave says no.  Rataj shows him the document to refresh his memory.

Soave says he doesn't really understand where Rataj is going with this and Rataj says with all due respect you don't have understand you just have to answer my questions.

Rataj asks if he remembers the invoice and the posting of the bond.  Judge Edmunds says Rataj doesn't have the foundation to ask these questions, says Soave said he didn't know about this.  Tells Rataj to move on.  Rataj starts over and the Judge interrupts him again and tells him the questions are improper.  Rataj loses this battle.

Okay, 3 strikes,  Judge tags him again, says Soave doesn't recall so Rataj doesn't have the foundation to ask these questions.


And we're on break.  A wild and wooly morning of testimony.  Rataj peppered Soave with questions and Soave, warming up a little batted his answers right back.  Rataj may have even rocked him back on his heels a little but Soave just leaned back in and stood his ground, even throwing in a few humorous lines.  The whole line of questioning about Soave being a tough guy and not easily intimidated was interesting.  My question is, if Soave's so tough, why did he put up with Bobby.  I'm thinking the answer is more than what Soave replied, that he was just trying to be a good business man.  It's clear that Soave got the message and knew how to play the game and when Bobby got too big for his britches Soave told him to go "F" himself and moved on to bigger and better things.

Soave is certainly no Victim, and he doesn't need to be to make the prosecution's case.  It's not just Kwame Bobby and Bernard that are on trial here.  It's the whole system.

The defense team has made it clear that this kind of stuff has been going on since the Young administration.  They made it clear with Karl Kado the Cobo contractor who admitted he had been paying off the Cobo Director well before Kwame took office.  It's clear that when Kwame did win the Mayor's seat he also won the keys to the vault.


Rataj asks if 1362 and 1368 contract was bid against Lanzo.  Soave is looking at the document.  Asking Rataj to show him the October... RAtaj Walks over to witness stands and points it out.

10/25/2001 Rataj asks if archer was mayor and if Inland got both contracts.  yes.

Rataj asks if the contracts were rolled together to make them a $50 million contract.  Yes.

Rataj says this would be a good place to take a break and Judges says take 20 minutes.


These two just had a great and rapid exchange about what Bobby meant in that quote, to the point the Judge had to jump in and break it up.  RAtaj asked, Soave started to answer, Rataj interrupted and said icily, you know what's in Bobby's mind.  Soave says well that what you asked me.  Bullotta objects saying it calls for  speculation. Soave says I told you what was in my mind.  It was kind of a donnybrook. 

Rataj starts to ask another questions when Bullotta cuts him off and objects.  The judge admonished Bullotta for not letting Rataj get the question out.  Rataj come back with I'd at least like to get the question out, then Judge Edmunds asks Rataj did you not just hear me admonish Mr. Bullotta for interrupting?

Thanks goodness RAtaj is taking a minute here to find a document about contract 1361 because I feel like I just finished a foot race.  Whew!


Soave says they felt the threat, that retaliation could happen, but it didn't.  He did take it seriously.

Rataj says not seriously enough to get into Bobby's face about it.  Soave says he didn't feel the need because the repercussions didn't happen.

Rataj asks if he's not the type to be threatened easily, pushed around.  Soave says by some people.  Rataj says like your mother or something.  Soave says and the grand kids.  SAys he tries to be a good business man.

Rataj asks if he agrees that starting out with a truck and a bulldozer he couldn't be pushed around to be so insanely successful.  Soave agrees he's not easily intimated, accept by his grand kids and you.  more laughs.  Rataj thanks him for the complement.

Rataj asks him if he told Bobby to go fuck himself.  Soave says "f" himself, Mrs. McCann doesn't swear but he admits that what he meant.

Rataj asks about Quote, Soave gives it, "You don't get it you're only here because of me." Rataj says but Bobby never threatened to get contracts. Soave says he knew what it meant.


Rataj asks if he said he didn't care if he knew the Mayor he as going to make Bobby do the work.  Yes.

Rataj says he didn't care he was going to make him tow the line and do the work.  Asks if he thought there was going to be retaliation.  Soave says yes but it never happened.

Rataj asks about perceived threats  reported by his employees but you didn't deal with Bobby personally.  Yes.

Rataj asks about "you're here because of me."

ASks if he's hands on.  Soave says he doesn't get his boots muddy but he's in touch.  Says he didn't call Bobby and say quit threatening my people.

Rataj says you didn't tell Mayor.  Soave says he did make remarks to Mayor.

Rataj says you never told Mr. Kilpatrick to quit threatening.  Says no he didn't say that.

Rataj says you had the opportunity to tell him.

RAtaj asks you took trips with him and went to a basketball game.  Soave says it was only 2 or 3 trips and he didn't go the game with Kwame, he couldn't afford any more tickets.


Rataj asks if he is a tough guy  to be successful.  Soave says no, he's a lovable guy, and gets a few laughs out of the jury.

Rataj asks if Bobby had a real company, had employees, did the work.  Yes.

Rataj asks if he knew Bobby started out with his Dad, about the same time as he started.  Bullotta is objecting and saying Rataj is testifying.  Judge sustains.  RAtaj gets right back into it and Bullotta objects again, Judge tells him to move along.  Rataj tells Judge is she's going to admonish him he's rather do it in sidebar.

Rataj asks if he instructed his people to push back against Ferguson.  Soave says he doesn't know what he means by push back, he treated Bobby like any other contractor.  Soave says Bobby wanted money for work he didn't do.  Says he made Bobby do the work.

Rataj says you admit you didn't care if he knew the mayor or not.  Soave says we still made him do the work.

Rataj asks but he did do the work.  Soave says yeah, because we made him.


RAtaj asks if contracting is no walk in the  park.  Soave says yes.

Rataj asks if it's good to help minorities out in the city of Detroit.  Soave says he's a Detroit contractor so yes.

RAtaj asking about being able to stand your ground and can't be intimidated.  Yes.

Can't threaten people. No.

asks if he described Ferguson as being a pain in the butt.  Says yes.

ASks if what he learned about Ferguson came from his employees. Yes.

Asks if others handled Inland waters. yes, except from the first one which was to put him on the job.

Rataj oaks if that was the  meeting with Kwame.  yes.

Rataj asks if said Bobby was a burr in his saddle.  yes.

Asks if Soave may have rubbed people the wrong way.  Soave says there are different kinds of burrs.


Rataj asks if Coleman got him started and helped him get contracts.  Soave says Coleman got him started mentoring people.  Soave says he it's good to be friendly with the Mayor of the city in which you do business.  Rataj asks if he was friends with Archer, Engler, several other Yes.

ASks if he's friends with politicians in Kansas City.  No.

Rataj asks if he testified to grand Jury that politicians in other cities have their favorite contractors. Bullotta objects, Judge sustains.

Rataj asks if politicians have their favorite contractors. Yes.  Soave says yes they like certain people. ASks if getting friendly with politicians is to get access, pick up a phone and talk to a Mayor or a Governor, get right to the boss.  Soave says yes.

Rataj asks if it's good to have former politicians on his team. 

Rataj asks what about Charlie Williams.  Soave says he wasn't a politician he was the former DWSD Director.

Rataj asks if Charlie had relationships with people in DWSD.  Yes.  ASks if he assisted in getting contracts.  Soave says we bid our contracts and asks when you say helped get it?  he's working with familiar people.  Sauce says he assumes there's no box to check that asks if this is one of your favorite people.

Rataj asks if Williams didn't have any employees, equipment.  Yes.  Rataj asks if Williams brought relationship and access.  Soave says he brought much more than that, he's an attorney with a shaper mind.

Rataj asks again access and relationships.  Soave says he knew people at DWSD.  Rataj says he knew what buttons to push.  Yes.

oaks if he used Williams as a minority front.  Absolutely not.  ASks if he didn't know anything about laying pipe.  Soave says he had the overview.

Soave says he did not have boots on the ground.

Rataj asks if he had a minority company, Detroit based, Detroit headquartered. Yes.

Got Inland more points.  Soave says that's one of the goals in the bid document.


Rataj asks if Soave knows that his company is worth 2.5 billion dollars.  Soave says he doesn't, he doesn't know where Rataj got that figure.

Rataj shows him a document.  Asks if he they got revenues of 2.5.  Judge says he can't ask that, he can only ask if it refreshes his recollection.

Judge is now telling Rataj he can't read it into the record.

Rataj asks if it refreshes his recollection?  Soave says it says in 2008 it was 2.5.  Rataj says it is more now?  Soave says no it probably slid back.  Rataj asks if it's still a lot of money and Soave says it's a lot of muchachos yeah.  laughter in court room.

Soave says he started in the 1960's. Rataj says one truck and one bulldozer and now here we are.  Soave says yes.  He doesn't talk about himself much, it is what it is.

Rataj asks if Coleman Young young mentored him.  Soave says I think you misunderstood, Coleman asked Soave to mentor some people.

Showing him grand jury testimony now.


Rataj asks if he owns Checker CAb and City Aviation.  yes.

ASks about owning largest Waste Management company in United States.  Says yes.

Now asking about Inland Waters Pollution Control.  Cleaning plants during down time, Yes.

Rataj says what we're talking about today is Inland Sewer Repair work.  Yes.

Rataj asks if Soave Enterprises is broken up into 4 portfolios.  Yes.

Kathleen McCann ran one of those?  Soave says yes, we interface with each other quite a bit.

Industrial SErvices, real estate, diversified portfolios? Yes

ASks if he knows how many companies he owns Soave says no, he owns 'em all and to him they're all one.

Rataj asks if Soave owns a lot of different companies.  Soave says yes.

Soave says Yale Levin, Kathleen McCann, Mike Piesco, Mike Hollenbeck rund the divisions.


Rataj now asking about his industrial real estate holdings.  Goes through a lengthy list.

ASks about industrial services type companies, like Inland.  Soave says that part of the work they do.  Asks about MPS.  Soave says he doesn't know what the initials stand for he didn't chose the name.

Soave says he owns car dealerships in Kansas City, Porsche, Mercedes, Jaguar.  Says yes.

RAtaj asks about hydroponics green house business asks him to explain.  Soave says the grow tomato's in a green house.  Big tomatoes... and small tomatoes, too.

Rataj starts to ask about a beverage distribution company.  Soave says that's not in Michigan it's in Chicago... the Chicago area and then we go into a side bar.


Rataj on Cross, asking about Soave Enterprises, asks if he owns a lot of businesses.  Yes.

Rataj asks if Soave started out in the metal recycling business.  Soave says no, that's what he's doing now.

RAtaj now asking about his real estate holdings, the Brambles in Florida? Soave says no that's in Virginia.  Rataj goes into all the holdings in several states. 

Asks if he missed anything in commercial real estate holdings.  Soave says he's got some in Michigan, Rochester and Lapeer.

Rataj now asking if he owns some subdivisions.  Soave says the first two are still vacant.  Talks about one that's partially developed. Asks about another that Soave says doesn't ring a bell.

Soave says he can't remember all of them, there could be another one or two.


The Jury is seated.  Tony Soave is on the stand.  Bullotta tells the Judge he has just a few more questions.  The Judge greets the jury and reminds Soave he's still under oath.  And I was wrong, Thomas is not in the court room,   Gerwitz is sitting in his chair.  Judge Edmunds says he's going to be late due to other matters.

Bullotta asks Soave testified he'd rather lose the next job than partner with Ferguson.  Soave says Ferguson wanted 50% of the next job and he told him to ,  um , well, go fly a kite.

Bullotta asks if any other Mayor told him to put a contractor on a job.  Soave says that was a long time ago, he really doesn't remember.  Bullotta asks if he ever thought  he'd lose a contract under another Mayor if he didn't use a particular contractor.  Says he doesn't recall.


The court room is filling up now, Thomas, Van Duesen, and Shea made it the defense table.  Bullotta and Chutkow are in, and  I can hear see Judge Nancy Edmunds sitting down at the Bench.


The picture is up and the court room is still nearly empty.  Tony Soave strolled through security around 8:30 this morning.  Bobby Ferguson and his attorneys Mike Rataj and Gerald Evelyn came in around 8:45.  They're in the court room now along with Kwame and Bernard Kilpatrick.  Agents Beeckman and Sauer are at the defense table.

The line to pass through security is out the door and down the block so as you can see we'll be starting a little late again this morning.


Good morning from the Theodore Levin Federal Court House in downtown Detroit. 

Ken Martinek is Senior Producer-Investigations for Fox 2 News.  You can contact him at

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